This. Yes. A million times this. Holy gods, people, why is this so difficult to understand? It seems so simple. People should be allowed to date, fuck, or marry people of whatever gender/sexual identity and they don't have to justify it. And shouldn't be scorned or pitied for it. Even if that's not someone you, personally, would date, fuck, marry, or even befriend.
(I'm also really annoyed at that emotional attraction thing. I'm generally much more emotionally attracted to women, not that it's anyone's business, or the point of anything, but grrrrr.)
Yeah dating is so complicated and so specific and it's bizarre that people act like bi women have the ability to just order up a girlfriend like a pizza and are simply choosing not to.
Maybe I'm missing some context on what you're critiquing here but I don't think it's bad to say there are societal barriers preventing bi women from dating other women or to try to combat them here. For instance, biphobia in lesbian/"queer woman" spaces is a barrier. The widespread expectation that women, especially bi women, owe men sex, companionship, and emotional support, is a barrier. Societal homophobia, the material consequences of being in a same-gender relationship, is another barrier. I think it's good allyship for queer monosexuals to acknowledge these factors and get involved in trying to combat them.
"I would love to date a woman but it feels impossible, guess I'll just settle for this shitty man" is a pretty common sentiment amongst bi women (I certainly felt this way for many years) and seems not ideal, especially given the stats about how bi women have worse mental health outcomes in "hetero" relationships compared to same-gender ones.
I agree that not caring as much about who people date is a big part of how to combat these problems though. Bi women being perceived as tainted by dick if they have ever dated a man is definitely a barrier to relationships with women.
i’ve seen the post being referenced and it wasn’t coming from a place of allyship (which would first & foremost include listening to & empowering bi women’s voices on this subject, which have been numerous) but rather from a patronising place. it was condescending that it was a conversation about bi women where bi women were the quiet subjects rather than active participants. it was really gross.
I think it depends a lot on framing. And I haven't read the post in question, to be fair, so I could be missing some context. Yes. There are legitimate barriers to dating women in general and as a bisexual specifically. And queer people as a whole should work to dismantle those to widen the options we have for dating. And biphobia among queers is a really big one of those barriers.
But as it's framed here, the article isn't so much about empowering people with choice and removal of barriers as it is about pity and sympathy and the assumption that a woman cannot be as fulfilled in a relationship with a straight man as she could be with a woman -- and that's condescending as fuck and also completely ignores the possibility that bi women might actually be bi and be just fine in their relationships with men. We aren't confused because of how we were socialized. We aren't weak-willed victims of compulsive heterosexuality who just didn't have the courage to come out all the way. When we say we are bisexual and are open to relationships with men as well as women... some of us may choose men.
For me, personally, I came to realize I was bisexual in my mid to late twenties (mid to late 2000s, for what it's worth). I figured out that I was more sexually attracted to men and more emotionally attracted to women and that eventually I'd find a person who met both of those needs, of whatever gender, and that's who I'd build a relationship with. And that's what happened. I met the man who is my husband soon afterwards. I do not regret this. I was not forced into this relationship because of my reluctance to embrace women. It was just what specifically happened to me, personally, and I resent the implication that it's only a relationship because lesbians didn't find me first and explain that I wouldn't actually be happy with him.
Yeah, so much of this. Was my not REALIZIGN I was bi until a few years ago potentially partly because of comphet? Sure. But I've been with my spouse for about 17 years and I'm not *with* him because of comphet, because he truly is an amazing person. It's by no means settling.
Those kinds of posts and biphobia comments really hurt. I know I shouldn't let them get to me, but they sting nonetheless. I tried SO hard for SUCH a long time to date women, but still ended up with mostly boyfriends. Still am trying! I really get bummed when I see people insinuate that if a bi woman dates mostly men, it's some kind of personal failing. Newsflash to these people, it's not as easy as just going to the girlfriend store instead of the boyfriend store and picking up a girlfriend.
"How could the queer community create a safe space to help bi women explore their sapphic sides?, the poster mused." Women should definitely get to explore their sapphic side safely if they choose! But This may be a leap but the poster also feels sort of like it veers into bi stereotypes because my first read w as are they trying to help bi women partnered with men cheat? Like it's sort of co-opting "safe"?
The worst cops of all are the ones in our heads that try to police other people.
This. Yes. A million times this. Holy gods, people, why is this so difficult to understand? It seems so simple. People should be allowed to date, fuck, or marry people of whatever gender/sexual identity and they don't have to justify it. And shouldn't be scorned or pitied for it. Even if that's not someone you, personally, would date, fuck, marry, or even befriend.
(I'm also really annoyed at that emotional attraction thing. I'm generally much more emotionally attracted to women, not that it's anyone's business, or the point of anything, but grrrrr.)
Yeah dating is so complicated and so specific and it's bizarre that people act like bi women have the ability to just order up a girlfriend like a pizza and are simply choosing not to.
Maybe I'm missing some context on what you're critiquing here but I don't think it's bad to say there are societal barriers preventing bi women from dating other women or to try to combat them here. For instance, biphobia in lesbian/"queer woman" spaces is a barrier. The widespread expectation that women, especially bi women, owe men sex, companionship, and emotional support, is a barrier. Societal homophobia, the material consequences of being in a same-gender relationship, is another barrier. I think it's good allyship for queer monosexuals to acknowledge these factors and get involved in trying to combat them.
"I would love to date a woman but it feels impossible, guess I'll just settle for this shitty man" is a pretty common sentiment amongst bi women (I certainly felt this way for many years) and seems not ideal, especially given the stats about how bi women have worse mental health outcomes in "hetero" relationships compared to same-gender ones.
I agree that not caring as much about who people date is a big part of how to combat these problems though. Bi women being perceived as tainted by dick if they have ever dated a man is definitely a barrier to relationships with women.
i’ve seen the post being referenced and it wasn’t coming from a place of allyship (which would first & foremost include listening to & empowering bi women’s voices on this subject, which have been numerous) but rather from a patronising place. it was condescending that it was a conversation about bi women where bi women were the quiet subjects rather than active participants. it was really gross.
I think it depends a lot on framing. And I haven't read the post in question, to be fair, so I could be missing some context. Yes. There are legitimate barriers to dating women in general and as a bisexual specifically. And queer people as a whole should work to dismantle those to widen the options we have for dating. And biphobia among queers is a really big one of those barriers.
But as it's framed here, the article isn't so much about empowering people with choice and removal of barriers as it is about pity and sympathy and the assumption that a woman cannot be as fulfilled in a relationship with a straight man as she could be with a woman -- and that's condescending as fuck and also completely ignores the possibility that bi women might actually be bi and be just fine in their relationships with men. We aren't confused because of how we were socialized. We aren't weak-willed victims of compulsive heterosexuality who just didn't have the courage to come out all the way. When we say we are bisexual and are open to relationships with men as well as women... some of us may choose men.
For me, personally, I came to realize I was bisexual in my mid to late twenties (mid to late 2000s, for what it's worth). I figured out that I was more sexually attracted to men and more emotionally attracted to women and that eventually I'd find a person who met both of those needs, of whatever gender, and that's who I'd build a relationship with. And that's what happened. I met the man who is my husband soon afterwards. I do not regret this. I was not forced into this relationship because of my reluctance to embrace women. It was just what specifically happened to me, personally, and I resent the implication that it's only a relationship because lesbians didn't find me first and explain that I wouldn't actually be happy with him.
Yeah, so much of this. Was my not REALIZIGN I was bi until a few years ago potentially partly because of comphet? Sure. But I've been with my spouse for about 17 years and I'm not *with* him because of comphet, because he truly is an amazing person. It's by no means settling.
Those kinds of posts and biphobia comments really hurt. I know I shouldn't let them get to me, but they sting nonetheless. I tried SO hard for SUCH a long time to date women, but still ended up with mostly boyfriends. Still am trying! I really get bummed when I see people insinuate that if a bi woman dates mostly men, it's some kind of personal failing. Newsflash to these people, it's not as easy as just going to the girlfriend store instead of the boyfriend store and picking up a girlfriend.
Well said Lux 💪
"How could the queer community create a safe space to help bi women explore their sapphic sides?, the poster mused." Women should definitely get to explore their sapphic side safely if they choose! But This may be a leap but the poster also feels sort of like it veers into bi stereotypes because my first read w as are they trying to help bi women partnered with men cheat? Like it's sort of co-opting "safe"?